DairyBusiness
Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: 3/4 Holstein calf?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    159

    Default 3/4 Holstein calf?

    OK, so say you breed this cow (she's half angus, half Holstein)...




    ...to this Holstein bull...




    ...you'd have a calf that's 1/4 angus and 3/4 Holstein. What would you expect the calf to look like?
    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Mostly black with some white above eyes and belly/legs? and not as beefy. Jersey will take out more of the beef type. High udder type bulls would be high on my list.
    Last edited by MoMilk; 06-13-2008 at 04:03 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    temperate Brazil
    Posts
    277

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by milkmaid View Post
    What would you expect the calf to look like?
    I would be more interested in knowing how good a dairy cow one would get out of that. I would expect a healthy, fertile animal, but with too shallow an udder and low milk production.

    Not?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    588

    Default

    I have a 1/2 Angus 1/2 Holstein cow milking now in her second lactation. I can squeeze 19-20,000 lbs. of milk out of her in a 305 day lactation.

    Tried using her as an embryo recipient but she didn't take it. Still haven't gotten her pregnant yet and she's starting to get pretty fat so she best get pregnant soon.

    Have a daughter from her sired by a Swedish Red that will be coming later this year. She's pretty much all black.

    Her second calf was sired by a Holstein, and was a bull calf. He has a little white on his lower legs, but that's about it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    159

    Default

    Well... I used sexed semen from Classic, so it should have been a heifer calf and I was expecting one that's at least half black and half white.

    Here's what I got...


    And it's a bull calf. Is it sired by Classic, or did my vet get the straws mixed up when AI'ing her? He keeps all my semen at his clinic and I wasn't in town when she was bred.

    Thoughts?
    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    159

    Default

    This is my black cow's dam, by the way (1st lactation cow)...

    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    121

    Default

    We have Jersey Holstein crosses and I've found that you can never assume what anything will look like. Sure the 3/4 Jerseys usually look the same but not always. We recently had one born that was larger than a Holstein calf. It was unreal how huge it was and a heifer too! We have 2 Jesey/Hol crosses that are brown, another looks almost like a red holstein but with spots not as red. When a calf has 2 different breeds into her genetic pool the results can swing in any way except for any of the dominate traits.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    temperate Brazil
    Posts
    277

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ElJefe View Post
    I have a 1/2 Angus 1/2 Holstein cow milking now in her second lactation. I can squeeze 19-20,000 lbs. of milk out of her in a 305 day lactation.
    That's outstanding!!

    Imagine 2 or 3 generations further down with good Holstein bulls put on...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BRFarmer View Post
    That's outstanding!!

    Imagine 2 or 3 generations further down with good Holstein bulls put on...
    I'm not so sure. The next generations could take more of the Angus traits and not make milk. The more holstein blood they get the better the chances of holstein like milk.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    temperate Brazil
    Posts
    277

    Default

    Matty,

    One of us got it wrong. I understood the thing was going from Angus towards Holstein (i.e. 1/2 Holstein cow bred with a Holstein bull).

    So I was assuming the next bull would also be Holstein and so on.

    Isn't it the case? If so the Holstein blood goes up not down.

    Am I missing "somefin"?



    Quote Originally Posted by MattyB View Post
    I'm not so sure. The next generations could take more of the Angus traits and not make milk. The more holstein blood they get the better the chances of holstein like milk.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BRFarmer View Post
    Matty,

    One of us got it wrong. I understood the thing was going from Angus towards Holstein (i.e. 1/2 Holstein cow bred with a Holstein bull).

    So I was assuming the next bull would also be Holstein and so on.

    Isn't it the case? If so the Holstein blood goes up not down.

    Am I missing "somefin"?
    Originally, we had a Holstein heifer at another farm that they had a real hard time getting her pregnant AI. She got put in with an Angus bull and got pregnant. She had a heifer calf. We didn't know what she was, as the report from the heifer grower said she was only sired by "Bull".

    That Holstein/Mystery cross was sent off to another heifer grower and came back a few months before freshening and I realized she was a Holstein/Angus cross. She was bred to a pretty good Swedish Red bull and had a heifer calf (all black).

    Some may have just gotten rid of her but I was curious to see how much she could milk. And she held her own just fine. She's working on her second lactation right now and peaked at about 100 lbs./day. The peak is much shorter so she has to get pregnant to continue pulling her weight. Posilac could probably be considered her savior.

    I'm interested to get her daughter back from the grower.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    121

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BRFarmer View Post
    Matty,

    One of us got it wrong. I understood the thing was going from Angus towards Holstein (i.e. 1/2 Holstein cow bred with a Holstein bull).

    So I was assuming the next bull would also be Holstein and so on.

    Isn't it the case? If so the Holstein blood goes up not down.

    Am I missing "somefin"?
    I may be wrong but I this is what I think happens. Holstein/Jersey calves will vary greatly as we have seen in our herd. Some may hit 90 lbs + their first lactation others will be below 50lbs. Some will almost be as large as a Holstein others will almost be Jersey size. If we breed one of those to a Holstein we have a BETTER chance of getting Holstein size and milk but not a guarantee, nor is it a guarantee the next generation and next if we use Holstein bulls. I feel Jersey traits in those future calves could last for at least 3 generations, if not more.

    I think it compares to Lineback crosses and the unmistakable markings they have. If you breed a 100% Lineback to a 100% Holstein and then continue with holstein bulls, the first cross has a 50% chance of having the line on its back. The second generation only has a 25% chance the 3rd 12.5% chance and so on. The further out you go the less the chance. But it is possible if lets say the 5th generation is bred to a Holstein and we get a Lineback marking. The chances were only 3.1% of being Lineback but it can happen.

    So thats why I conclude that a Holstein/Angus cross may have a chance of giving Angus milk. Just like if a below average cow is bred to an above average bull, the calf may be below, above or average.

    Just my two cents, thanks for reading, I enjoy a good discussion! Matt

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    588

    Default

    MattyB, we've seen the same variation in our Holstein/Jersey crosses and continue to see it as we get more.

    One pattern I've noticed is the inverse relationship between their volume and components. The higher volume HoJo's usually have components more in line with a Holstein, but most do have a bit more fat in their milk compared to a Holstein. The lower volume cows tend to have more components all around. Being in a component market, these cows are actually producing very well in terms of what is making us money despite not looking too impressive in terms of pounds of milk. For example, one that gives 60-70 lbs. of milk/day in her first lactation looks pretty low for our standards but when you look at fat-corrected production, she'll likely be at 75-85 lbs which certainly wouldn't put her in the elite category but is more than pulling her weight.

    We're starting to get a larger amount of HoJo's entering their second and third lactation and I'm interested to see how some of these lower volume/higher components animals mature. It's pretty much a given that we'll see an uptick in the volume, but I'm curious to see how much of a bump we can expect. What we do have milking now in lactation two and greater are more of the high volume variety. There are a couple that are on pace to make well over 30,000 lbs, peaking at 160 lbs./day.

    I'm definitely not seeing a whole lot of loss in production, if any at all, along with making all the reproductive gains. We'll see how they fare when we throw the Swedish Red into the mix as a third breed. The three-ways should be freshening next year sometime.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    121

    Default

    Wow ElJefe, you are almost exactly in the same boat and at the same spot of the river as we are. We have some Ho/Jo's that are in their third lactation. And we also have started breeding them to the Swedish Red bull named B-Jurist. I always say with the Ho/Jo's that we get Jersey milk with Holstein components but that's a big exaggeration. I feel that overall we get the average of Holstein and Jersey traits. But some do better and some worse. Our best Ho/Jo hit 101 lbs with 5.1% fat and 3.0% pro. She went up to 113 lbs but lost fat.

    But the best part of the Ho/Jo is health, longevity and repro. The crosses are at 48% conception (we time breed a lot, lowering our conception a little) and the Holsteins are 31%. Big difference! If you want to chat more about cross breeding check out http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/grou...o=1&m=p&tidx=1

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    21

    Default sexed semen question

    Ok, as for the sexed semen question...I have done a couple reports on sexed semen, so I know a little about it. I also used sexed semen at my place for my show stock, and obviously being a user, myself, I NEED to know something about it.
    Questions for potential breeders:
    1. Is your vet experienced at placing sexed semen? Only highly experienced technicians should perform your AI with sexed semen. Sexed semen is not yet recommended for use in lactating cows, or when flushing for embryo transfer, (due to already reduced conception rates with sexed semen).
    2. Is she a virgin heifer? If not, the recommended use of sexed semen is for virgin heifers, and for some reason they take better.
    3. Does your herd have a 60% or higher conception rate? (Another recommendation for buying sexed semen) Sexing semen is only 90% accurate, so don't be suprised if an XY slides on by on accident. Herds that normally run 60-65% conception in virgin heifers should expect a conception rate of 35-45% with sexed semen.

    YOUR LESSON FOR THE DAY
    The process of sexing semen is actually pretty interesting to me. They use a process called Flow Cytometry, which is extremely slow. Semen is dyed using a florescent colored dye, and sent through the flow-cytometer at 60 mph under about 50psi. X-Chromosomes are about 3% larger than Y-Chromosomes, so the X's emit more light. A laser detects the gender of the sperm, and the X and Y chromosomes are separated by assigning either a positive or negative charge to the sperm as they pass through the flow cytometer as single droplets of liquid. Then, the sperm are split into 3 different categories: positive charged sperm of one sex, negative charged sperm of the other sex, and the undefined sex passes straight through.

    Also, 30% of the sample are oriented enough to even finish passing through the flow-cytometer, and half of those (15%) are the heifer-sexed ones. Not only is 15% used for heifer-semen sales, the semen count is lower because of the slow process...$250,000 goes into the flow-cytometer, so it's no wonder sexed semen is more costly, eh?

    Alright, I might've scared a couple of you away now, but that was not my intention. There are quite a few benefits to using sexed semen. Heifer calves are usually delivered easier, creating a better calving ease. More heifer calves being born lets you increase your internal herd, and create a sense of biosecurity within it. Also, sexed semen is usually only offered on the genetically advanced bulls, therefore allowing you to have produce that is genetically superior to your original herd, ever increasing your production, style, and overall quality of your cattle.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    159

    Default

    For those who are interested in knowing -- I had the calf DNA tested and the results came back today. He IS sired by Classic, which makes him 3/4 Holstein, and I guess he's one of those 3-10% that end up bulls when they should have been heifers.
    ~your decisions are only as good as the information you base them on~

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •